Bigfoots, Midis v Barrows?

popeyethewelder.com/facebook questions

 

Ian Nudge Pearse –Hiya, ok one thing I would like to see a test/review/survery on is wheels n tyres. There has been a lot of discussion on the subject but no back to back testing. Would be good if one buggy flew in a straight line with the same kite using all the different types of wheels Barrow Midi BFL Euros Beach racer discs of all types etc. Then time the distance. Then a 3 point course doing the same test and timed.Wheels and tyres have always intrigued me to what is best to use and I thiink would be a good once and for all “test”

Just a thought ūüôā

2012

    • ¬†Martin Smith –¬†Great idea Same Kite, Pilot & Buggy
    • Carlos Fandango –¬†Yes that would be good, but how could you guarantee the exact same wind during the test process, just a variation of 1mph or a slight gust would invalidate the test and would be an inacurate comparrison.
    • Glenn Ford –¬†Good one Nudge am very keen on info especially the use of motorised scooter wheels, have found a scooter wreckers that stocks about 30 marques of scooter wheel sizes vary from 10″ to 16″ .
    • Stuart Mcgougan –¬†Best way I’ve found to test kit/changes to setup is to fly close to someone else of a similar speed on same course. Any speed differences should be easy to spot.¬† This way you both get same sand and wind conditions.
    • Ian Nudge Pearse –¬†agree with¬† the wind comment, but a Wind speed can be recorded. you will always have gusts it can’t be helped, but the results can then be shown with this time to this windowed. maybe do the course 3 times and take an average as well?…all I would say with no disrespect but no wheel supplier rep associate or sponsored rider should do the test. I say this because if their wheel was the fastest in the eyes of the public that would be void add they could have dipped the kite more etc etc. test should be carried out by a control pilot…..just my thoughts!
    • Carlos Fandango –¬†A demo set of the landsegler wheels, has been requested, if that¬†is what you are refering to nudge, just got to be sanctioned
    • Ian Nudge Pearse –¬†Please dont think I am not being disrespectful or having a go etc by saying it should be done by a control person pops btw, as I know you would do it fairly if you did the test, but you also know that there would be people who would dismiss facts etc if the tester had relations with a manufacturer and that means with anything kites buggies helmets kites nail varnish (just checkin your reading ;)), for instance no point in a kite test being done by a sponsored pilot as they will always say that the¬† X Brand the are associated with is the best for this n that! we have seen it soooo many times with someone who flies for ozone and they are the best since sliced bread, they they fly for PKD, now theses are fantastic, then Libre and never flown anything like it, they have to to please sponsors! as you say you want this site to become a resource to buggying in general and end of the day an individual will fly ride use what they are happy/comfortable/afford what you are supplying a factual resource. For instance, if barrows came out as the fastest on the day I would say that majority wouldnt suddenly sell talons Euros etc in favour of barrows! Just thisjust would be nice to see an overall review …….you know what I mean lol
    • Arend Geerlings –¬†Tests has already been made…….But there is no BEST tyre. Every tyre has its own specifics and will not rum every time the best. Sometimes You need at a small course a Duro while it is light. On graas it’s te beachracer and on a hard beach with a long straight you need a Eurotrax……so there is no best tyre for every type of buggying!!!!!
    • Craig Hansen –¬†Some good info on this hear, the rig we used still exists just need a better telemetry setup to capture data off the load cells. LINK
    • Carlos Fandango –¬†That’s what my next comment was going to be, every surface, beach ect will be different…..on one beach barrows may be the best by miles……the same beach a week later, it has gone soft so big foots are the wheels…..2 days later after a huge down pour discs will be the best to use….so its really horses for courses tbh…..And nudge I wasn’t thinking that at all, I enjoy these topics
    • Craig Hansen –¬†Along with this Wane Wayne Carkeek has a load cell rig that goes in train with the kite and measures load that way he might like to jump in with some info on his findings? Oh i forgot to mention the Rig was not able to test any wind drag effects on the various wheels as it was in the slipstream ov the van.
    • Ian Nudge Pearse –¬†it was just an idea, and as said so many variants would effect it, the question originally about the site was what could be added or what would you like to see.
      Myself I would like to have heard what a group of wheels/tyres were like on X day where the conditions were listed as the winds were X Speed the beach was X conditions. I understand that this wouldnt be the “bible” of tyres/wheels, just an interesting topic. Ill hush now was just a thought and an idea for you
    • Carlos Fandango –¬†Nudge, on the contrary, your post has created an interesting discussion, it will be interesting to hear Waynes findings, and if no one has any objections, I would like to add the main points to the site.
    • Alan Vidow –¬†Sounds like a good idea, just as thought. Would it be worth having another control in there, ie another person & do it over a long weekend? So 2 closely matched people, the “control” could be a sponsored/rep/anybody but very similar level of flyer to the tester. There is then differences in grooving. As I have previously used a (duro) bigfoot lite with 7 standard grooves in it, I had it re-grooved with 13 deep wide grooves, I found I could remove the 4kg’s of weight on the front as it was no longer washing out
    • Arend Geerlings –¬†On One groove you loose 20 gramms. I have the beachracer and removed all the grooves. I also put a light gismo rimm in them. I lost 0.6 kg pro Wheel.
      I already said…..tests already been made……over and over again.
    • Stuart Mcgougan – Two¬†pilots pacing each other don’t need to be exact same speed.¬† You are only looking to see the effect of a change relative to the control (unchanged) pilot
    • Chris Wilson –¬†I think what Alan meant which groves are best. The weight comment came from the fact that as he got more grip he could the remove buggy weights which he originally needed to get grip with the old style groves.
      How much different are the grooves that can be cut into a duro as a opposed to a Eurotrax ?
      My new buggy has duros on cadcats and I currently have Eurotrax on cadcats so guess I will be able to do some testing :0)
    • Carlos Fandango –¬†Arend do you have any date written down from your findings, also what was the purpose of removing the grooves….purely a weight thing?, I think Adrian has already mentioned a wide groove 9-10mm is perfect as the sand then drops out..As far as I know the euro trax have a thicker layer of rubber, john cuts them as deep as he can, and they are wide grooves, I assume as now the majority of the racers now use this set up, as far as grooves are concerned these are the way to go…..but what about the Dutch, Germans and French….what type of grooves do they have cut in?
    • Chris Wilson –¬†Well my buggy is from holland and the grooves appear to be shallower and more numerous than ours but it’s hard to tell from a picture
    • Landsegler Manufaktur –¬†may be you can cut the grooves trapeze-shaped – like a draught of a mold – the sand then can better drop out.
    • Arend Geerlings –¬†Everything I know is in my head, we did not written anything down. There are only a bit facts that came out.
    • 1. A higher tyre is running easyer.
    • 2. A lighter tyre is a litte bit faster away.
    • 3. A higher tyre can go a litte bit more upwind than a lower tyre.
    • Those are the only facts. The amount of having grooves is only a discussion and not¬† part of the fact what is better. We put in more ore less groves, wider and smaller grooves.¬† And even slicks on the beach. But taking a Cooper on a litte bit brakes makes more difference than any kind of groove. The only groove that is better is the beachracer on grass. On the beach the wide and deep beachracer grooves makes more fraction than the smaller grooves. The best set up at the moment is under my buggy. A beachracer on 2.5″ rimms and all the grooves cut away. so I have a bit lighter, A bit higher an the fraction grooves away……That came out!
    • Wayne Carkeek –¬†load cell findings were interesting …but i have no cad cats to try down here